The Flattening of Celine: How ‘Before Midnight’ Reduces a Feminist Icon

This is a guest post by Molly McCaffrey.
Before Midnight movie poster

There are numerous reasons why Before Midnight—the third film in the Richard Linklater Before Sunrise/Before Sunset trilogy—is an important film.
Jesse and Celine in Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, and Before Midnight

It’s an important film first and foremost because it’s a film about grown-ups doing grown-up things. The main characters—Celine (played by Julie Delpy) and Jesse (played by Ethan Hawke)—are in their forties raising two kids together, so the film revolves around the kind of issues such people face: how to be good parents, how to balance the needs of their careers, how to keep the spark alive in their relationship, how to deal with the aging process, etc.
Celine, Jesse, and daughters in the car

Thankfully the film doesn’t ever give into the gross-out humor that seems to almost be a requirement now for other movies about middle-age—This Is 40, Funny People, and Bridesmaids come to mind (as if moviegoers won’t see a movie that doesn’t have at least one fart joke or an explosion).
Movie poster for This Is 40

Before Midnight—like its predecessors—is also important because of its focus on character development, writing, and acting. This is because, thankfully, the major players and co-writers—Linklater, Delpy, and Hawke—believe in creating art that is both realistic and thoughtful. It seems obvious that the three of them want viewers to walk out of the theater asking relevant philosophical questions about both themselves and the characters, a goal which on its own makes these films admirable.
Jesse and Celine holding hands

Further demonstrating its importance is the fact that, unlike almost every other movie made today, the characters in this film look real. Sure, when the first film in the trilogy—Before Sunrise—came out, these actors had movie star faces and bodies:
Jesse and Celine in Before Sunrise

But by now they look like regular people:
Jesse and Celine in Before Midnight

Celine has fleshy arms, big hips, thick thighs, and a bit of a stomach while Jesse’s age shows in his drawn face, his lined forehead, and the countless wrinkles around his eyes and mouth. Neither of these actors is likely to be cast in the part of the leading woman or man in a Hollywood film, but it’s their so-called flaws that make them so interesting and, in the case of Celine, so beautiful and such an inspiration. If more actresses looked like Celine, then maybe American women would finally learn to give up the notion that they must be thin to be attractive.
Jesse and Celine in Before Midnight

But for all of its accomplishments, there is a major problem at the heart of Before Midnight, and that problem is that Celine’s character is no longer believable or even entirely empathetic. This is in contrast to Before Sunrise and Before Sunset, where both Celine and Jesse are depicted as the most likeable and well-rounded liberals on the planet.
Celine and Jesse

In all three of the films, Celine’s feminism is a central focus of the story: she talks to Jesse about her desire to have her own life, her own ideas, and to not be defined by a man. And in Before Sunset and Before Sunrise, she expresses a desire to fall in love and share her life with a man in a committed relationship. In that way, Celine is a wonderful depiction of a modern heterosexual feminist, something we don’t see often enough on the big (or little) screen.
Celine and Jesse arguing in the car

But in Before Midnight, Celine’s feminism pushes her to behave in ways we’ve not seen her do before—she seems much more hostile and much less empathetic toward Jesse even though he has supported her values and her career throughout their nine-year relationship.
Celine and daughters

This is especially surprising given that in the first two films, Celine and Jesse agree about gender roles and feminist issues. But in Before Midnight they fight about it from start to finish—even though Jesse agrees with all of Celine’s ideals, making Celine’s depiction unrealistic and troubling.
This problem manifests itself in the following ways: *SPOILERS AHEAD*
1) Celine demonstrates no empathy for Jesse when he expresses regret after they drop off his son at the airport at the end of the summer so he can return home to his mother in the U.S.
Later Celine claims that Jesse is always moody after his son leaves, so it’s surprising that she isn’t more empathetic in this situation. Isn’t that what people do in a healthy relationship? Anticipate each other’s struggles and help them through it? This is just the first example of the ways that Celine acts as if they are in an unhealthy or unhappy relationship even though there are no other signs that they are.
2) Instead of being empathetic in that moment, Celine picks a fight with Jesse, insisting that he wants her to give up her career and move to the States even though he doesn’t ever say that he does.
It would have been so much more interesting for them to have a real discussion about this issue since that’s what healthy couples usually do in these types of impossible situations—acknowledge the difficulty of it, weigh the pros and cons over a period of time, and then make a decision. But Celine seems to see Jesse as incapable of compromising or working with her even though he has evidently done so in the past.
3) She won’t consider moving to the U.S., so Jesse can live near his son even though he moved to France so she could be near her mother when giving birth to their twin daughters.
Not only won’t she move, she doesn’t even want to talk about moving. Her resistance to merely discussing the idea seems strange simply because he has moved for her in the past, and again a healthy relationship between two intelligent adults often requires both of them to put the other’s career first at different times.
4) Celine brings up their problems in front of others at dinner.
There’s not much to say about this except that it’s such an immature move that it doesn’t fit at all with what we already know about Celine, a successful, intelligent, confident woman.
5) She offers little support when Jesse’s grandmother dies.
Not only does she change the subject pretty quickly, but she also declines to go to the funeral when he asks her to do so.
6) Celine implies Jesse was only drawn to her for superficial reasons.
At one point Celine asks Jesse if he would still want her to spend the day with him if he saw her on a train today. It’s a ridiculous question considering how beautiful and intelligent Celine is, especially given that Jesse hasn’t aged as well as she has, a fact acknowledged by Jesse when he says, “The real question is would you want to get off the train with me.” As a result, her question seems to imply that he—and all men by extension—are only attracted to young women and could not possibly find a forty-year-old woman attractive, an idea that may be believable in Hollywood but doesn’t hold water in the world Linklater has created for Celine and Jesse.
7) She resents his career and does so while simultaneously asking him to respect hers.
This resentment is demonstrated when she complains about their trip to Greece to spend time with another author, when she is reluctant to autograph Jesse’s books for a fan in their hotel (even though the books are about her), and when she insists he is never allowed to write about her again. It’s hard to believe that a true feminist—like the Celine we have come to know and love in the earlier films—would indulge in this kind of hypocritical behavior.
8) She holds Jesse responsible for all of her problems with men and the patriarchal society we live in.
She does this even though he’s proven he’s not that kind of guy and understands she’s not the kind of woman who would put up with that kind of man, explaining, “You could never be submissive to anybody.”
9) Finally, this problem comes to an ugly head when Celine tells Jesse—at the height of their argument about their future—that she doesn’t think she loves him anymore and then walks out on him.
It’s a cruel thing to say even if she does mean it, but the fact that Jesse doesn’t take it seriously and they make up leads the viewer to believe that she doesn’t even mean it and has possibly even said—or insinuated it—before. In that sense, it feels like she is playing a game with him, a dangerous childish game that is the adult equivalent of sticking your tongue out at someone. It’s a moment when Celine shows no respect for Jesse’s feelings, and viewers are left to wonder how she can expect him to respect her if she doesn’t do the same for him.
******
Because other aspects of this film—including acting and characterization—are so strong, I can only conclude that these problems with Celine are the result of bad writing. It’s certainly true that the writing in Before Midnight lacks the subtlety and complexity evident in the first two films.
Good writing demands well-rounded characters, but Celine seems more flat and one-dimensional in this film than she ever has before. Jesse’s flaws are rather ordinary—he doesn’t like to clean the house, and he has stubbornly held onto his slacker facial hair. But Celine’s flaws are the opposite of ordinary—rather than being average, they are so extreme in the third film that they don’t even seem believable given what else we know about her character. If she’s an educated, intelligent, confident, and strong woman, why doesn’t she trust the man who loves these things about her?
Though they haven’t done it before, Linklater, Delpy, and Hawke fall back on stereotypical ideas about what it means to be a feminist when writing Celine’s dialogue for this film. They make her seem harsh and narrow-minded—even irrational at times—rather than thoughtful and open-minded. In this way, the film harkens back to another well-known “talky” film about a heterosexual couple discussing important issues, 1978’s Same Time, Next Year.
Movie poster for Same Time, Next Year

Unfortunately it feels like Before Midnight also co-opted that film’s take on intelligent couples by merely showing them in constant disagreement. It’s a depiction that feels outdated given what we know by now about communication in healthy, equitable relationships.
This seems to be an honest mistake, but it’s a disappointing one nonetheless, especially since it’s so hard to find movies about strong feminists and because the two previous films sidestepped these landmines so well by making Celine both willful and caring.
In fact, by depicting strong, intelligent women as incapable of compromise and empathy, Before Midnight reinforces all of the ugly stereotypes about feminists and sends the message that you can’t be a good feminist if you stay home with the kids or sew curtains or move for your spouse. When in reality, feminists—female and male alike—can do all of the above since feminism isn’t about acting a certain way but rather about embracing equality.
This misrepresentation is alluded to when Celine says to Jesse, “I feel close to you… But sometimes, I don’t know? I feel like you’re breathing helium and I’m breathing oxygen.”
It’s this comment that best sums up the problems with the film because it implies that men and women are reduced simply to their differences and that they are, in fact, so different that they cannot possibly relate, agree, compromise, or even get along past a certain point in their relationship. It’s a rehashing of the old men-are-from-Mars-women-are-from-Venus idea that is anti-feminist and unbelievable as well as being one that this viewer found very difficult to relate to.


Molly McCaffrey is the author of the short story collection How to Survive Graduate School & Other Disasters, the co-editor of Commutability: Stories about the Journey from Here to There, and the founder of I Will Not Diet, a blog devoted to healthy living and body acceptance. She received her Ph.D. from the University of Cincinnati and has worked with Academy Award winner Barbara Kopple and World War Z author, Max Brooks. Currently she teaches at Western Kentucky University and designs books for Steel Toe Books. She has just finished work on her first memoir, You Belong to Us, which tells the story of McCaffrey meeting her biological family.

25 thoughts on “The Flattening of Celine: How ‘Before Midnight’ Reduces a Feminist Icon”

  1. Would your disappointment with Celine be lessened if she followed through on her pledge to discuss it again in a month if he still feels that way? You make some good points and I have seen others voicing the idea that Celine is too mean in this film– but how about this– she is stressed out, he drops a sort of bomb on her, she pushes back, other issues arise because that is what often happens when couple fight—- if she follows through and discusses it rationally with him in a month would you be less critical of the depiction?

    To take Celine’s side- my view is she sees the kid is relatively well adjusted, she really does hate the idea of living in Chicago near the ex wife and only seeing the kid every other weekend (she like New York and Paris, that is who she is), she has seen this before from Jesse and didnt want to really get into it– so she pushes back.

    I also think a lot of her fury is a test– she is testing him– because she realizes this issue is not going to go away and before she caves in and follows him– violating so many of her principles- she is going to make damn sure he is worth it still. So we get into his flaws: cheating, lack of imagination in the bedroom, etc. She is super harsh, but she knows this is an inflection point–

    I hope your concerns get addressed by a part 4 which shows they worked out this issue and gave Jesse more contact with his son before the son is grown.

  2. Funny, I didn’t interpret Celine this way at all, though I’ve heard a lot of people saying she was a bitch. I saw many of her actions as arising out of insecurity.

    She hates Jesse writing these books about her because she does not feel the Celine in the books represents her. She is tired of people looking at her as if they know who she is based on a book someone else wrote. I would feel the same way.

    There is also the issue that Celine doesn’t want to uproot their daughters. The whole film, it seemed like Jesse cares more about his son than their daughters.

    It also seems like Jesse is always patronizing Celine. He has a typical woman be crazy attitude towards their disagreements.

    I suppose I identify with Celine. I’m an outspoken, often angry woman, and I sometimes feel like my partner does not take my anger/unhappiness seriously.

  3. I really enjoyed reading your interpretation, but interestingly I read the film very differently.

    I didn’t find Celine’s behaviour extreme at all. Uncomfortable and unkind at times, but not out of the ordinary. For me, the message of the film was that being in a long-term relationship makes you behave in ways that are really shitty. And Celine’s anger and failure to empathise comes from the fact that she feels burned out by her role as mother/partner/family support.

    I suspect that most 40-ish women with kids who’ve been in a long term relationship can recognise themselves in Celine. I certainly can. Not pretty, but true.

    I thought it was a pretty accurate portrayal of the kind of things that people do when they are tired, unhappy, insecure, and angry. And Celine’s function is not to be a feminist role model, but to show that even basically nice intelligent people who love each other can behave in horrible ways.

    I also didn’t really feel that they ‘made up’ at the end of the film. Patched things up for the night, yes, but we had caught a glimpse of a lot of fundamental issues in their relationship.

  4. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who was uncomfortable with how Celine turned out. Her telling Jesse that she didn’t love him anymore did seem manipulative, but I also agree with godisagnostic that Jesse took the women are crazy argument, and that was deeply frustrating.

    I didn’t like her attitude that he was ridiculous for wanting to be closer to his son. I don’t feel that he put his son before his daughters, but that he had a lot of guilt, and some unfair resentment of Celine, that he gave up being with his son all the time to be with Celine.

    However, I do feel he was a great deal more supportive of her career than she was of his. She flat out put down his writing, which I found extremely unempathetic. She got together with him 9 years ago BECAUSE of a book he had written about them, so she shouldn’t have been frustrated that he contined to mine their life for his fiction, any more than he should blame her for his current relationship with his son. I feel the movie put her in the position of blaming him much more strongly than he did her. He never said anything negative about her career, only that she had been miserable when she worked for a certain guy she was considering working for again, and he mentioned how late she got home at night, but I believe he brought that up defensively when she accused him of doing nothing for their daughters. Also, while he did IMPLY he would like to live closer to Henry, he only asked her to consider it, and she reacted angrily.

    I think the movie put out that she was much more bitter than he, even though they have BOTH given up things to be with one another. The movie definitely made her more hateful than Jesse, and I was unhappy with that representation.

  5. Woah! Woah, woah, woah. Have you considered applying the lens of mental health to Celine’s arc? I’m fascinated by Celine’s character for that reason, and so I found the hotel scene a natural extension of what we’d seen before. Mental health is a factor in my own 25-year relationship, and I got the warm fuzzies when I realized they were running with it in the third film.

    It’s subtle in Before Sunrise, but Celine’s troubles are present, if only seeded. In the streetcar scene, Celine rattles off a long list of things she “hates,” looking at her nails when she confesses there’s a lot more. At the pinball game in the club, we learn she obsessed over a past relationship and even alarmed a therapist, who threatened to call the police. Celine blows it off, but it matters if you give that therapist an ounce of credit.

    In Before Sunset, in the garden scene on the bench, Celine is struggling. She says “It’s amazing what perverts we’ve become in the past nine years,” then contorts her face in self-loathing/regret for being so clumsy. Eyes closed, big frown, pursed lips. Jesse doesn’t notice. If “self-loathing” strikes you as too strong a characterization, check out that scene again.

    In the cab, Celine’s less-than-stable mental health is out there between them.

    “You know what? Reality and love are almost contradictory for me. It’s funny. Every single of my exes, they’re now married. Men go out with me, we break up, and then they get married. And later they call me to thank me for teaching them what love is, and that I taught them to care and respect women.”

    “I think I’m one of those guys.”

    “You know, I want to KILL them! Why didn’t they ask me to marry them?! I would have said no but at least they could have asked! It’s my fault, I know it’s my fault, because I never felt it was the right man. Never!”

    I’m sure you know the rest of the scene well, with her insisting to be let out of the cab, slapping Jesse’s hand away when he touches her, etc.

    Here’s the thing: her outburst is OK with Jesse. His statement of affection for her despite her being slightly unhinged is no throw-away line:

    “Alright, you know what? I’m just happy to see you, even if you’ve become an angry, manic-depressive activist. I still like you! I still enjoy being around you!”

    At that point Celine smiles, mercifully, ending her freak out. It also marks the end of Celine’s troubled expressions in the second film.

    The films are so rich, especially with this third installment, that I’m sure I’m oblivious to many of the lenses the audience can bring to the art. I’m sad to learn it falls short on feminism, and I see your point, but I was delighted with the core challenge being Celine’s emotional volatility.

  6. I couldn’t agree more. I would be interested to see what Molly would say when she is in her 40s – she writes like an idealistic young woman. That’s why this film is so powerful – it’s about ageing, who we thought we were going to be and the reality of who we do become – longer term relationships, being a mother, thwarted ambition, watching your body age.

  7. Ah, my POV is strictly from a relationship without kids. My wife and I haven’t had the fabric of our relationship shredded by the pressure of kids, so I relate Celine’s behaviour to the many seeds left by the authors in the first two films (many more than I mentioned above).

    The Fortune Teller, suddenly serious:
    “You need to resign yourself to the awkwardness of life. Only if you find peace
    within yourself, will you find true connection with others.”

    That’s no throw-away line! Why is it there? Why would they possibly ignore it when scripting a sequel?

    What if Celene has always been insecure and angry?

    “There were times when you made me — I mean, her, right? No, me, whatever — uh, a
    little bit neurotic!”

    “But you are a little bit like that, aren’t ya?”

    “You think I’m neurotic?!”

    “No! No, no, no, c’mon, I’m kidding! Where did I do that? I didn’t do that.”

    “Oh, maybe it’s just me. You know, um, reading something knowing that the character
    in the story is based on you, it’s both flattering and disturbing at the same time.”

    My wife and I have mercifully never come close to the exchange in the hotel. If that’s standard fare for “40-ish women with kids”

    What if she’s been unhappy for a while?

    “People don’t want to admit it, but it’s like we have these innate set points, you know? Nothing much that happens to us changes our disposition.”

    [snip]

    “So you mean I’ll be forever depressed no matter what great things happen in my life?”

  8. honestly i completely agree with this blog and THANK YOU SO MUCH this is a saving post… its the first i’ve seen that completely examines the thoughts i had while watching this film

    more specifically:
    I feel celine grew so much throughout the first two, and for some reason, turned 180 in this last installment. And I was Sooo looking forward to it!!! but i was terribly disappointed…

    and the first thing that struck me was the cruelty of her character… I couldn’t understand- an intelligent, for the most part logical, woman refused to listen to her husband talk about his other son, I felt almost offended. I loved her so much for being so caring and thoughtful, but I let it slide… I soon began to realize it Was the writing–they seemed to talk at each other rather than with– celine trying to impress rather than actually provide meaningful commentary… The comedic aspects of the movie were also mildly cringe-worthy, but i digress…

    And for everyone saying her actions aroused from insecurity-which they very well may have done, but it was her insecure self vs Jesse calm cool and collected self… i don’t know, I feel I needed more explanation or something, I felt I missed 45 minutes of the movie or something. Long story short, something just didn’t sit well with me….

    You hit everything I had to say Molly, I would love sitting down with you and discussing the movie. I keep seeing phenomenal reviews, and I keep asking myself- “were we watching the same movie..???” I honestly left halfway through as I was so confused, and felt my time would be better spent elsewhere instead of scratching my head whilst the entire audience laughed along at their “goofy” banter.

  9. “I feel celine grew so much throughout the first two, and for some reason, turned 180 in this last installment”

    Give the first two films a close viewing. Be alert to the number of times Celine’s instability is referenced or manifests, vs the number of her feminist statements. There’s nothing inconsistent here.

    In one of the many YouTube interviews, Julie Delpy mentions, while the other two principals nod in agreement, that sympathy for Celine’s character is difficult in this film. Celine being emotionally hijacked is something they ran with to drive home the reality of the difficulty of relationships, even Jesse and Celine’s. It’s a courageous decision to go there and a courageous and rewarding film for it.

    In her essay, Molly acknowledges this dimension of Celine’s character once, and only incidentally with the adjective “willful.” Anybody disappointed in Celine as a feminist icon, as both you and Molly are here, is projecting — not unlike the romantic projection in first two films — and is missing the character as written, just as Jesse misses the signs and jumps into a relationship with somebody he doesn’t actually know.

  10. Celine is not an individual meant to be reduced to some label – even one so seemingly “complimentary” as “feminist icon.” She is a human being. Apparently that is in question by those who go out of their way to label “feminist icons” rather than recognizing their value as people, devoid of labels, first and foremost.

    Celine is strong-willed and dealing with her own issues which Jesse deflects attention away from, causing her to get on his case to re-establish his focus. This is a realistic depiction of a relationship – perhaps one on the rocks.

    I don’t understand why someone who likely prefers that strong individuals be viewed as such would reduce the Celine character to a caricature of “feminist icon” (as an ideal) enough to fixate on her as that in the first two films or now reject her humanity (since she doesn’t fit the ideal and is therefore likely perceived as “caricature” in contrast) further in the latest. That someone would watch a film about protagonists who constantly disagree and debate…for some sort of example of a perfect, healthy relationship devoid of conflict is also baffling. Part of what makes these characters intriguing is their passion and that has a tendency to cause intense arguments. This, along with the more focal realism, adds depth and meaning to their relationships and being – it doesn’t reduce them as this article has.

    1. Truth. She has been through an ordeal. The reality of growing up and moving beyond youthful ideals is a theme I felt this review skipped around completely.

      1. I agree, Steve. Most of the reviews on this movie seem to have missed the point–middle age grieving of the life we expected to have, while being pushed and pulled in many competing directions. Celine has always been impassioned and emotional. Here we see so much conflict going on inside her that she is unable to express it all. She knows something is wrong and, of course, taking it out on her closest relationship. I think she is even aware on some level that it IS her time to compromise. And I totally disagree that Jesse did not react to her declaration of not loving him. He responds not by lashing out in hurt, instead realizes he needs to move the bar higher, and tries to provide her with some romance. In some ways Jesse seems more resigned with his life’s adventure and the many compromises he’s made. He’s all about solving problems and making it work: how he can mitigate the damage on Hank and keep what he has now, too.

  11. yes thank you! i just saw it, and was shocked at how they chose to portray celine. really really bad communication on both sides, actually. and very reactionary.

  12. Celine is not happy with her life. She believes she has settled because of the unplanned pregnancy, resents Jesse for not living up to her unrealistic expectations, wants out but knows she is trapped. I believe she actually hates Jesse at this point, and at moments these emotions come out, but she knows she has no choice but to accept her life as it is-and in order to do that she must bottle her true emotions and act, hence the final scene.

    1. I’m so struck by this comment (despite its age) that I just had to respond. Does she hate Jesse? No way! She finally comes around after she’s convinced he still loves her even with all their problems and after everything she’s said.

      Now, is she resigned to their problems (that’s what real life is) or is she sold by his promises that things are going to get better? I don’t know. Personally, I think he’s right on both counts. In four years his son will be out of school and their daughters will be old enough to take care of themselves. It will get easier…

      That’s why I dread a sequel. Not because I doubt the characters could stay together; I just don’t see how it could make a movie. It’s like after the first film — they should have gotten back together like they’d planned. Even if she couldn’t be there — he knew where she went to school. She could have sent someone to find him at the train station. But them not meeting sure as hell made a better movie. At this point, though, call me a sap — I just want a happy ending. I’m content with what we got after this third movie.

  13. I would argue that Jesse and Celine were both reduced to flat characters, but only for the fight scene. I’ve seen each film in the trilogy only once, so I should be careful with my judgment, but my first impression on seeing this one was that while we do see the “real” Jesse and Celine for most of it—still chatting away, debating, poking fun at each other, and now, figuring out middle-aged family life together—in the hotel, certainly by the end of the fight, they’ve been transformed into a familiar, almost clichéd, dysfunctional couple.

    Not that the real Jesse and Celine shouldn’t deal with dysfunction, but if one thing has been established in their on-screen relationship, it’s that they have always been able to talk to each other openly and for the most part, honestly. And perhaps more important, listen to each other. It’s what makes their falling in love the day they meet believable. But in the hotel, they’re simply not there.

    I can believe Jesse would cheat on Celine and not tell her, but I can’t believe that when confronted, he would ignore her question, and respond essentially by accusing her of questioning his commitment. It’s familiar, it’s understandable, and sadly, it’s predictably male. But is it Jesse?

    I can believe that Celine would be bored, and even pissed off, by Jesse always having sex the same way, but would it take a fight for Celine to bring the subject up? Basically, in the hotel, this is not a communicating couple who love each other deeply but are struggling through feelings of resentment toward each other—this is a couple who may love each other, but have spent years bottling their resentment and then when the kids are gone, it explodes, and they’re at each other’s throats. Contemptuous, totally un-empathetic, and downright mean. It’s like they haven’t had a real conversation about their feelings in years. Jesse and Celine?

    So why? That’s why I’m bummed. Whatever the intention—undoubtedly honest and thoughtful—of the director and actors, I think they took an extraordinary couple brought together by extraordinary, yet believable, circumstances—and with their communication, maybe even a healthy example to follow—and waited as long as possible to reveal them to be actually pretty ordinary after all, and not as special as we thought. And definitely nothing to be inspired by. :-(

    1. Ordinary can be special. And love is often strengthened by adversity. This was never intended to be a fairy tale.

      1. I think you’re right about how ordinary can itself be special. It was simplistic of me to imply that they were mutually exclusive.

        But I guess my view was that Jesse and Celine were presented in all three films as being not ordinary, especially in how well they related to each other. And that in the final scene their extraordinariness was shown to have been an illusion, which is fine of course, but it just didn’t seem to me to be in character with all that had come before.

        Basically, the solidness of their communication, I thought, was maintained too far into the story to be convincingly dismantled so completely at the last moment. Adversity didn’t seem to have strengthened their love, but rather to have nearly destroyed it.

        1. I don’t think the solidness of their communication was dismantled at the last moment. What you write off as “shown to have been an illusion” is just as real as any other behavior they engage in. They went through this troubling argument and emerged on the other side. So it can easily be argued that it strengthened their love.

        2. I recently rewatched the films with a friend and the end of the third film feels so perfect after doing so. When Jesse first convinces Celine to get off the train with him, his argument is that when she’s 80-something she’ll be able to look back and have no regrets. In the third film, when Jesse is trying to reconcile, he takes a similar (albeit incredibly cheese) approach by making up a letter from Celine’s 80-year-old self. In both cases he’s basically asking her: how do you want to look back on this? He also says, “This is real life, it’s not perfect, but it’s real” and real life has road bumps like the one they’re having at that moment

    2. I think the important factor to consider for this film (that’s different from the first 2 films) is that Celine and Jesse have been together for 9 years and they both know they will continue being together. I think a big factor in the dialogue of the first 2 films is that they’re meeting (for the first time or again) and there’s a deadline after which they don’t think they’ll see each other. Therefore, it’s more exciting and they’re more inclined to be honest because in a few hours it’ll all be over. The dynamic of the third film is completely different. To me, they’re actually more real then they’ve ever been because they’re not wooing each other. In the first two film, they seem to interact in a bubble; a little break from their lives to reflect and connect. In the last film, the bubble has popped and the outside world is seeping in on their connection.

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