“So Tosh then starts making some very generalizing, declarative statements about rape jokes always being funny, how can a rape joke not be funny, rape is hilarious, etc. I don’t know why he was so repetitive about it but I felt provoked because I, for one, DON’T find them funny and never have. So I didnt appreciate Daniel Tosh (or anyone!) telling me I should find them funny. So I yelled out, “Actually, rape jokes are never funny!”
“I did it because, even though being “disruptive” is against my nature, I felt that sitting there and saying nothing, or leaving quietly, would have been against my values as a person and as a woman. I don’t sit there while someone tells me how I should feel about something as profound and damaging as rape.
“After I called out to him, Tosh paused for a moment. Then, he says, “Wouldn’t it be funny if that girl got raped by like, 5 guys right now? Like right now? What if a bunch of guys just raped her…”
all the out of context misquotes aside, i’d like to sincerely apologize j.mp/PJ8bNs
— daniel tosh (@danieltosh) July 10, 2012
the point i was making before i was heckled is there are awful things in the world but you can still make jokes about them. #deadbabies
— daniel tosh (@danieltosh) July 10, 2012
Of course, Tosh is the same person who incorporates physical assault against women into his comedy, encouraging viewers to videotape sneaking up behind women and touching them non-consensually. Tosh obviously has no problem encouraging people to act out his comedy. Or of course calling for a woman to be gang raped in public.
“That’s why the problem isn’t the jokes or who’s telling them. It’s that so many, many people think that stories about degrading and violating women, the more violently the better, is laugh-out-loud entertaining.”
“Rape jokes are not funny. They potentially trigger survivors, and they uphold the rape culture. They tacitly convey approval of rape to rapists, who do not appreciate “rape irony.” There is no neutral in rape culture, and jokes that diminish or normalize rape empower rapists. Rape jokes are pro-rape.
“If you incite rape, you are an enforcer of rape culture. If you argue that inciting rape is harmless, you are an enforcer of rape culture.”
Vanessa Valenti, Feministing Editor and Co-Founder, points out why what Tosh did wasn’t humor and how he should be held accountable:
“Tosh threatened an audience member with rape. This should not be a conversation about where to draw the line (as much of the media is asking around this). There is a very, very clear line here…This conversation should be about holding public figures accountable for the impact they have on larger culture.”
While I disagree that rape jokes can be funny, I absolutely 100% agree with The Nation’s Jessica Valenti (and Feministing Co-Founder) that there’s a huge difference between “pointing out the absurdity” of rape and sexism — like George Carlin, Sarah Silverman and Wanda Sykes — and actually threatening someone with assault, which Tosh did:
“But here’s the thing: threatening women with rape, making light of rape, and suggesting that women who speak up be raped is not edgy or controversial. It’s the norm. This is what women deal with every day. Maintaining the status quo around violence against women isn’t exactly revolutionary…
“If you are this attached to jokes about raping women – if they mean this much to you – it’s time to look inward and think about why that is.
“Because at the end of the day, the misogynist fervor behind the defense of Tosh doesn’t isn’t an impassioned debate over free speech or the nature of humor. It’s men who feel entitled to say whatever they want – no matter how violent – to women, and who are angry to have that long standing privilege challenged.”
Jezebel’s Lindy West debunks the most common arguments supporting Tosh, including those who say Tosh’s humor is okay because he offends everyone:
“…Being an “equal opportunity offender”—as in, “It’s okay, because Daniel Tosh makes fun of ALL people: women, men, AIDS victims, dead babies, gay guys, blah blah blah”—falls apart when you remember (as so many of us are forced to all the time) that all people are not in equal positions of power…
“It’s really easy to believe that “nothing is sacred” when the sanctity of your body and your freedom are never legitimately threatened.”
“Rape is disturbing and horrible. It’s one of the horrors that we should keep at bay with humor, not encourage. Right now, the woman who posted the complaint about Tosh is receiving legitimate death and rape threats from his fans. So, his “joke” didn’t diffuse pain or horror — it sparked it.
“…The problem isn’t Daniel Tosh. The problem is that our society is still a rape culture where a large percentage of people think that rape’s OK and that a girl in a short skirt is asking for it and that it’s funny to assault someone. Not for the sake of satire, but for one person’s amusement over another person’s real life victimization.”
We live amongst a rape culture that normalizes violence and misogyny against women and objectifies women’s bodies. Society teaches people how to avoid rape rather than to not rape, putting the blame on the victim/survivor. The media berates women and brushes off rape survivors’ claims, putting the blame not on the rapist or abuser but with the survivor who comes forward.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I’m sick and tired of rape jokes. But whether you think rape jokes are funny or not, it stopped being a “joke” the moment Tosh harassed and threatened a woman with violence.
And there’s nothing fucking funny about that.
While this may get me into a bunch of shit, i do believe you can make a joke abut something without approving of it.Like i’ve made(and will continue to do) plenty of race jokes, but i don’t approve of racism.Also, going into a comedy club without knowing anything about a person performing there means you can be exposed to humor you don’t like. In those cases i think it is best to leave.
With that said, the way Tosh handled was a bit over the top and unnecessary. Also, his call for viewers of his tv show to touch woman’s bellies in a non-consensual manner was wrong, and something i think eh should have to apologize for. When encouraging viewers to do something like that to real life people that is crossing the line(Along with those threatening the women with death or rape)
And on the subject of claims being brushed off, i think one must take into account the woman who have lied about being raped(Like in the duke Lacross team) and thus made things harder for actual rape victims.
Making race jokes and “not approving of racism” cannot coexist in one human being. Sorry. Either stop makin them, or admit that you’re racist.
It’s possible to make a joke about rape without approving of it. Do you know how you do it? You make a joke about how it’s bad and how stupid it sounds when people talk about it like it’s okay.
There’s tons of room for humor there, and you’re not ignoring the issue. Bam, problem completely solved.
As it is, he’s not making creative humor, he’s just spouting the same tired jokes over and over again. We’ve all heard rape jokes, even if you don’t agree that they’re horrible, you have to agree that they’re totally played out and overused. Maybe making a joke that calls them out as a problem could end up being a better joke in the end.
…I’ve never judged someone on there race, so no i don’t think i’m not. But if you’ve already marked me as one, i guess i can’t change your opinion
I disagree. I don’t think he’s very funny or especially talented, mostly because he relies on the shock crutch too much. But to ban certain types of entertainment is fascism; America is strong enough to change its weak points and improve its culture continuously while still holding firm to its core values. I find the revulsion I feel at the substance of his jokes only reinforces the horror and disgust I feel towards the actual subject matter, even while the outward reaction is sometimes laughter.
If you’re not aware of the subjectmatter a comedian works with, you should find out before going. If you might be offended by something someone says, don’t pay them money to let you be in the same room as them. And if you do show up, be respectful of that person’s performance; if you find out you messed up and are too sensitive for the topics discussed, don’t interrupt and ruin the performer’s and audience’s nights. Simply stand up and leave, and learn to be more discerning with your personal taste in comedy.
I never said anything about “banning” entertainment. In fact, I stated that I “vehemently disagree with people wanting to censor music, gory films or violent videogames.” Maybe you should ask yourself why you’re going so hard in the paint defending someone you disagree with who not only tells offensive rape jokes but also reinforces rape culture and incited violence and harassment against a woman who disagreed with him.
I also don’t think it’s appropriate to tone police someone’s reactions to offensive things.
Hm. So you don’t want to censor him, but you don’t want him saying what he’s saying? How do those coexist? My point is that a comedian’s act is still just an act; if you take it seriously, that’s on you. But it’s never acceptable to interrupt someone’s set and ruin their night, just because you can’t deal with the content of their act. Everyone chose to be there; be respectful or choose to leave.
Having an opinion about something, even a negative opinion, is not synonymous with censorship.